Episode 102: Pursuing Writing Romance with Liv Arnold

Melissa: 0:24

Welcome to another captivating episode of pursuing uncomfortable today. I welcome romance author, Liv Arnold. Liv takes us on a fascinating exploration of her own experiences with anxiety and how writing became her outlet for understanding and coping with her symptoms. Her series delves into the world of finance crime and the challenges faced by female characters in a male dominated industry. Liv also shares her unique approach to tackling anxiety through unconventional methods, like cold therapy and fasting, revealing the deep connection between the mind and physical resilience. Get ready to be inspired and captivated as we dive into Liv's world of writing romance and pursuing uncomfortable truths. Let's jump right in. Liv, welcome to the Pursuing Uncomfortable podcast. How are you today?

Liv Arnold: 1:22

I'm good. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Melissa. Yeah,

Melissa: 1:26

it's my pleasure. It's going to be a fun interview today. So I'm really excited to get into what you do and how you do it. So let's just jump right in, shall we?

Liv Arnold: 1:37

Okay,

1:37

great.

Melissa: 1:38

Sounds good. So tell us, tell us about yourself. Tell us what you do about

Liv Arnold: 1:42

your books. So I'm from Melbourne, Australia. Um, I've lived here my whole life. Uh, I started writing, so I got my first. book publishing deal in 2018 and I write romance books. So the first book is an enemies to lovers type trope, um, called Law and Disorder. And then I have two books out that's part of the same series called Etched in Stone and Stepping Stone. And they're both based in an investment firm. So they have financial crime elements. It sounds

Melissa: 2:15

really exciting and I've already put them in my cart on Amazon. I can't wait to get them and read through them. No, thank you. This was an inspired work for you. Is it not?

Liv Arnold: 2:27

Yeah. So with Stepping Stone, the main male character, he has PTSD from serving in the war and I got inspiration because I've got anxiety and I know it's not the same thing as PTSD from serving in the war, but. Some of the symptoms or, um, the physical signs are similar, like the chest constricting and, um, being startled easily by loud noises. So I used my experience with those to bring into the character. And also I have a friend that served in Afghanistan. Um. When, so he said pretty much all soldiers that come back from the war, they experience some form of PTSD. So he gave me good insight on that. And, um, and because of my experiences with anxiety and also with men's mental health, I think men are less likely to seek help compared to women because they might be a bit embarrassed to, um, speak out about any vulnerabilities. Um, a portion of Stepping Stones profits is going to, um, I always get this name. Wrong, because it's a very long name, but it's Anxiety and Depression Association of America. All right. Well,

Melissa: 3:43

that's good to know. I'm already intrigued. So has writing been an outlet for you and dealing with understanding and coping with your symptoms and with your anxiety?

Liv Arnold: 3:56

Yeah, definitely. Um, so I am on Lovan, which is on a low dosage anxiety medication. Um, so it used to be when, since I was young, and even when I started work, that I would be awake until all hours of the night. Okay. Worrying about silly things, like if someone's mad at me or until the alarm came off. And, um, and so I would get zero sleep that night. So that's why I started taking Lovan to be able to go to sleep that night. But other than that, I didn't really find it reduced. those symptoms that much, those day to day symptoms. So then, um, I found writing is better than therapy. I've been to got cognitive behavior therapy, which um, we, which honestly, I didn't really think it really helps me that much by notes helps a lot of people. So I don't. Disregard that, but, um, but I think it's important to find something that best suits you and your needs and maybe something that I resonated with. So writing helps me escape to another world, thinking about fictional characters in a make believe world. That sounds

Melissa: 5:06

exciting. So how many books, you said you had three in the series, is that correct?

Liv Arnold: 5:13

But there'll be three in the series. So in the Investor in You series, I'm working on the third book at the moment. And each book is based on a different female team member in an IT and data analytics team. So I wanted to write, um, female male, female characters that based in a team that's usually maybe male dominated and to maybe explore that avenue. And, um, my friends have been a great help. So one of my friends that works in the IT, he's given me insight of what hacking might look like and what coding might look like. It went over my head, but, um, it was good to learn something new.

Melissa: 5:50

Yeah. I bet you learn a whole lot by doing these characters and writing these books.

Liv Arnold: 5:56

Yeah. And to be able to picture like totally different people. So that really helps with, with my anxiety along with other things as well. Um, um, about, I started, um, doing the Wim Hof method. So. I'm not sure if your listeners have heard of him, but he's a guy from Iceland and, um. He, he practices cold therapy and with the 10 week program, um, what he does is, is a combination of breathing exercises and meditation, um, plus it's also cold water therapy. So it's building up the cold showers every week. So we'll start off from maybe 15 to 30 seconds to at the end, I was doing 10 minutes of cold showers. What was in that cold shower or. Stressors just fly out the window because I just think I can't wait to get out of this cold shower.

Melissa: 6:52

It seems so counterintuitive because when I think of comfort, I think of a nice long hot shower, not a frigid cold shower that I want to escape from.

Liv Arnold: 7:05

Yeah, I think the point is to like to push myself, um, physically and because realistically a 10, 15 second shower, it won't harm me, but it's more controlling the mind, I think. Um, so controlling the physical body. And then so that my mind will obey.

Melissa: 7:25

Do you come out of that experience with a better understanding that your mind is the boss, that your mind gets to be in charge and you can assert your thoughts to control other sensations in your body?

Liv Arnold: 7:39

Yeah, I think that's definitely the case, um, because I think part of having anxiety, my mind isn't always the boss. Like it does spiral out of control to really ridiculous scenarios that most people will think will never happen. And, um, and I think pushing myself physically, it does, it does link with the mind. So, um. So I've been trying to push myself physically with other things as well. Like, um, I do 20 hour fastings for a few times a week. And at first, when I started doing it, I used to get really cranky towards the ends, but, um, but I've gotten used to it. So it's all about training the mind so that when things happen. Um, I, I'll be able to more equipped to handle it. That

Melissa: 8:30

makes a lot of sense to me that in trying these things, and of course, one should always be careful and edge into these things, not just. Plunge into them. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, when we do these things, it reminds us that we are the boss of our thoughts. We get to choose what we think and we can assert some control over our experience. And that gets lost when we're in the grips of anxiety, that we can't control. But it's not just a switch we flip, it's a muscle that we train and an instinct that we develop.

Liv Arnold: 9:07

Yeah, I think it's a big thing. Um, like when I started jujitsu a few weeks ago, um, so you learn things like taking someone down, but you also practice being taken down. And I never went flying onto the mat so often within the 45 minute class session. And, um, it's a lot of fun, but, um, but it is also that training, the mind factor that like it teaches that resilience that whenever I fall over to get back up.

Melissa: 9:36

Yeah, those are powerful lessons and are those present in the characters you write as well?

Liv Arnold: 9:43

Yeah. So, um, so my main male character, um, he has PTSD, as I mentioned before, and he goes through a journey to, to what might help him. So um, something a bit more reckless, like, um, illegal boxing matches. And my friend, um, that served in the army said sometimes, um. Soldiers when they come back from the war, they might do reckless things when they get back. And so he, he liked to feel that physical, um, push for himself and he was experiencing those symptoms like getting styled if he hears like a back, a car backfiring. And, um, but. He goes through a few things and, um, at the end he decides to try out cognitive behavior therapy and counseling. Um, he always brushed it off beforehand saying you won't do anything. And I think that's what a lot of men would think, but you won't know if it's for you until you try it. And for him, for this character, he finds that it is that first positive step for him to moving forward.

Melissa: 10:55

One of the things I appreciate most about Books that are well written and especially serious when you really get to spend time with a character over, over time. The authors that take time and intent to develop those character arts, to pay attention to the little nuances that really bring out those. Those traits, that's an art and I admire that in

Liv Arnold: 11:20

people. Thank you. Have you written much beforehand?

Melissa: 11:26

Not fiction. Uh, my books are nonfiction, but I do love to get lost in fiction, especially when the characters are very well

Liv Arnold: 11:36

written. Yeah, it is a different ballgame, um, fiction and nonfiction, but I guess with writing, um, it is like getting immersed yourself in that work and, um, and honing that craft. Yeah. And how has this

Melissa: 11:51

process helped you to heal? I mean, you've mentioned some of the obvious ways, but have you learned different nuances about yourself in this pursuit?

Liv Arnold: 12:00

Yeah, um, so with writing books, um, I do have an anxious personality and, um, and a lot of authors say, don't read your book reviews, but I can't help it. I read every single one of them and, um, and sometimes like when I read a really negative review at the beginning, it did. Um, it, it did bring down my mood a little bit, but, um, I think that sort of thing still does like, um, like, um, I think with being an author, like part of doing that, um, is doing media type interviews and, um, so whether radio or TV or, or anything like that. And I've had to develop a thicker skin for something like that, because sometimes, um, when I see comments for some of my interviews, say if it was like, um, one where it shows. I, I still read some comments where people actually critiquing what I look like. And I didn't think that like, I didn't actually think that would happen at the beginning, like, um, because like, I was thinking these people don't know me. So why would they bother to take the time to write a comment on something they don't like about my appearance physically, but, um, and. Those words would repeat in circles in my head until I learned to let it go.

Melissa: 13:21

That is just bizarre to me. What does your physical appearance have to do with your writing and your characters and the development?

Devon: 13:31

Hi, I want to take a quick moment and tell you about my mom. She's an amazing mom and an amazing podcast host, isn't she? She's also amazing at helping people to understand and manage anxiety and to build a strong spiritual practice. She has online courses, books, and a lot of free resources and downloads to help you live an amazing life. So please check out lightlifeandloveministries. com and her YouTube channel. The links are in the show notes.

Liv Arnold: 13:58

Yeah, I know, but like, I think if you, if I'm going to put myself out there, um, and I think authors in a way it's different compared to other people in the creative industry because you don't. have to show your face as often so you can be a bit more anonymous in that way. So it's not like an actor or singer or anything like that. Um, yeah, with being an author, it should be, um, what. the books say, which, uh, which happens with a lot of authors, um, about that quality of work. But I guess like the same thing could be said about actors or singers, like, um, it should be about their songs or their music or their movies, but people do critique their appearances. And, um, yeah, I think as an author, because a lot of it, a lot of authors I know, um, they're quite introverted and they, and authors are known as more behind the scenes type. Um, role, I wasn't expecting that will occur Jake, when I do interviews. Now

Melissa: 15:02

when one thinks about writing a book, one might think that the actual writing of the book is the work, but that's not always the case, right? What was the big surprise to you when you began your author journey? Um,

Liv Arnold: 15:18

well, when I began, um, so I was working full time at a big four bank in a risk and compliance area. So it was very dry type work and, um, my, I started it because my mom recommended that I do a creative writing course that it's, it was a short course that happened outside of work hours. And so, so I really loved that course and connecting with like minded people and going into that. Um, I was thinking that getting a book publishing deal was near impossible, that it was equivalent to being an actor or, or singer or something like that. And, and I thought it was virtually impossible for something like that to happen. to me, but then, um, through meeting my writing teachers, um, I learned that just through a lot of persistence because most teachers have said persistence is the most important thing and to not take rejections to heart and to just keep going. Most people that they know, if they keep persisting, they'll eventually get there. And, um, So that's one big thing that I learned, um, before I did these courses, I thought that, um, the publisher or, um, someone else will help you do the marketing. But, um, but since getting into it, I, I realized that authors are expected to do a lot of their own marketing and find their own, um, media. So. That's something I've had to learn as well, to be able to put myself out there, to be able to pitch myself that elevated pitch, which I was never good at beforehand. Um, and I'm probably still a terrible public speaker, but it's, yeah, it's all, all been a learning curve.

Melissa: 17:02

Yeah, you would think you write a book and it goes on the shelf and then people come and buy it, but there's a lot that happens between writing the book and all the people coming to buy it.

Liv Arnold: 17:12

Yeah. And even with publicity stuff, um, publicity. So, um, PR I've been lucky to get some good PR, but I've learned that doesn't necessarily equal to sales. Um, PR is more about getting my author brand out there and, um, yeah, and to get my, myself a bit more known. So it doesn't necessarily equal to sales. So sometimes if you see authors like that, getting on everything, like every big. National TV interview, it doesn't necessarily mean that books are selling, selling. So, yeah, that, that's another thing that I learned. So

Melissa: 17:53

can you give us your elevator pitch? Nothing like putting you on the spot, but here's the platform and tell us why we should buy your books.

Liv Arnold: 18:03

Um. Well, I can't, well, a quick elevator speech, that's all gone out the window for me at the moment, but why people should buy my books is that it's got financial suspense. in my books. Um, that's from me working at a big four bank, but it's not only that. Um, I think it's got a lot of humor in it. Um, life can be a lot stranger than fiction. So sometimes I use my real life experiences of strange things that's happened into my books. Like for example, my novel Etched in Stone, um, the main male. The main female character, Vanessa, she gets into a car accident because she's looking at a billboard of food. And I actually did that. I hit the car in front of me because I got distracted with the. Restaurant billboard and, um, and because when I hit the front car, um, that person couldn't drive anymore. So, um, so I called the police for traffic control and I wrote this into my book. And as soon as the police came to the scene. Um, he gave me a fine for restless driving, reckless driving. And so I pretty much called the police on myself and that's effective. That's what happened in my book. But

Melissa: 19:24

I can totally identify that with that, um, seeing a billboard for delicious food and getting distracted in the moment, who can't identify with that?

Liv Arnold: 19:33

Right. The facts I know. And so the police officer just told me your eyes should be. I'm on the road at all times. That's not an excuse. So I actually told him what happened saying, Oh, I was just looking over the, I think I was too

Melissa: 19:48

honest. That is funny. That is funny, but you know, good for you for taking responsibility. Some people would have driven on and that's good on you for being responsible for yourself. That's great.

Liv Arnold: 20:02

Yes, that's true. But he did give me two fines as soon as he

Melissa: 20:06

saw me. Okay. So the real question, are your books sexy?

Liv Arnold: 20:13

They are. So, um, there's a lot of, um, intimate, sexy scenes. Um, each book has a different type, um, sexual type experience. So in Law and Disorder, it's, uh, it's more of a novella. So women can read it maybe on their lunch break or on their way to work. And that uses props. Around the house, like to heighten the motions and the intensity. So I like using, like, um, using things like sounds, like the. um, kettle boiling. So that's sort of like a metaphor in itself to like reach that peak. Um, and with my book Etched in Stone, they have that, um, interest of having sex in public places just for that thrill of getting caught. And I think a lot of people do have that fantasy and in Stepping Stone. So the main female character, Jenna, she's always had, um, desires for, Liked B D S M and I think with romance books, um, it's important to showcase that everyone does have certain thoughts or, um, desires, but to not be embarrassed or ashamed of it, just as long as you discuss it in an open and respectful way to your partner or whoever you are with. Um, yeah, it, it, it shouldn't be seen as, Taboo. You

Melissa: 21:41

said something very compelling to me yesterday when we spoke. You said that anything less than an enthusiastic yes is a no, and I love that message. That message needs to be out there. So say that again and give us some more context about that if you would. So

Liv Arnold: 22:00

in a lot of romance books, unless it's an enthusiastic 100%, yes, it's a no. And that's something that's transferable to real life. Like, um, you see on the news that, um, that maybe. whoever, um, is pursuing, um, they're like quite persistent with pursuing that person. And even if the person eventually gives in, um, it could be because they felt so much pressure into. The events leading up to it, they felt that they had to do it. So in a way that sort of coercive control to be able to, it, well, it's kind of equivalent to like a shopkeeper following you around the shop, bugging you to buy something, um, and nonstop bugging you. And then when you eventually give in and buy it. you might feel that funny feeling that you don't necessarily want this but you just got so much pressure into that so it's like that same thing that it has to be that enthusiastic yes and I think that's what readers want to see as well to um to have that even though there is that fantasy element in romance books but to be able to see that both parties are full heartedly into that moment whether verbally or um or, or through their actions to, so, so that this is what enthusiasm looks like. You don't need to pressure or, or, um, or I guess try to put manipulation onto them. So that, that's something that's important in a lot of romance books to make sure that consent is there and most. Most romance books does have that responsibility in making sure that the protection is there as well, like with condoms. And, um, just so that when people read it, they don't have a funny feeling or think that's cool to read to, um, if something like that happened.

Melissa: 23:55

And thank you for doing that. That's an important nuance. It's missing in a lot of places in our culture today. And I love that it's, it's just a part of what you do and how you write. It's an important message to get out there.

Liv Arnold: 24:10

Um, and that's important in the dating world. So, um, dating is, it's always constantly changing. Um, so like with Tinder and different dating apps, like, um, so I've been married for, well, I've been with the same person for about 11 years, but it meant those dating apps, it was never around when I was single or, or anything like that and, um, And my husband, he's always been very respectful and very encouraging to everything that I do. And, um, I, I actually used to work with my husband at the big four banks. So we used to work together and that's part of the reason why I decided to write office romances. Um, because a lot of, I think as much as 35% of people meet their partners at work because you spend so much time with that person and, um, and. For my book, etched in stone, my husband actually came up with that initial concept because when I first started writing, I wanted to get into children's or young adult books and, um, he said an idea as a joke for etched in stone that how about. A woman accidentally walks into a man's change room and she walks into a drop dead, gorgeous, naked man. And he happens to be her future boss and that sort of stuff. It never happens in real life. If you're going to walk in on someone that there'll be the opposite of like a brooding, hot, sexy, um, and, and I thought this idea could work and I just went with it.

Melissa: 25:44

It sounds fun. It sounds fun. Uh, as we draw to a close today, are there any last thoughts, anything you want to share with the audience before we leave? I do want to point out to anyone listening that the link to these books, the link is in the show notes. So make sure you click on it, check it out. They're going to be a lot of fun to read and if you just need a little bit of time away from the reality of things. These books are fantastic to just enjoy some time apart.

Liv Arnold: 26:14

Yeah. Um, I guess any last words is just find something that most works for you. If you're experiencing mental health challenges, there's different things that you could do if one thing doesn't. work or like really make much of an impact for you, there's always other things that you could do. So I've, I've, um, I've tried a lot of things with mental health challenges from, um, medication to therapy. Um, and I thought like, maybe I'm just stuck with this, but like there's. Always something that you could do to like, find something that could improve the symptoms or to change your mindset.

Melissa: 26:56

Thank you for that message. Also a good message that we all need. Thanks for talking to us today and good luck to you in the future. I hope you sell millions

Liv Arnold: 27:05

of copies. Thank you so much for having me.